Martingale Blackjack Forum
(Note from Arnold Snyder: To learn how to win at blackjack over the long run, with or without card counting, start with our Intro to Winning Blackjack.) Question from a Reader regarding the Martingale Betting System: I lost a substantial amount of my savings playing blackjack at casino name deleted in Atlantic City — almost $30,000. Classic Martingale for Blackjack. The classic Martingale system is original, the one described above. In blackjack, applying this betting system is very simple: start the game with the minimum bet; in case of loss, double the bet, and in case of victory — reduce it. Mini Martingale. Mini-Martingale is a variation of the classic strategy with. The Martingale System for blackjack is premised on a player starting with a low entry bet which is then doubled every time a player encounters a loss.
Obv you suffer from Mathematicians Fallacy. Lol
Yes but my doctor has me on something to control it.
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when playing bj, i strictly follow this guide http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/
no one has answered my question. I know all the pitfalls and fallacies involved with this system, thanks anyway for the advice. All I'm asking is, given the same bankroll and the following bj rules, which gives me better odds, bj or roulette?
dealer hits on soft 17
BJ pays 3:2
dealer uses 6 decks
no surrender
no double after split
What are the table limits on your BJ and craps games? If I was dead-set on playing a marty, I might consider doing it on a game like craps where splits/doubles weren't a concern. BJ starts with a lower edge, but lost splits/doubles increase the effective HE by increasing the likelihood that the table max will bite you.
I started experimenting with the martingale system. I know it's a losing system in the long run but there are a couple things you can do to limit your risk:
1. bring as much to the table as you can (max table limit)
2. set a goal and walk away once you reach it
3. set a max number of spins or dice rolls (roulette/craps).
using these rules, I've won most of my sessions and thus, I am up overall. I was wondering if the house might have less of an edge if I use the same system in blackjack. Obviously, split hands and double-downs throw a wrench in the system so they would be used only with the smaller bets or not at all.
thoughts?
This is absurd. Using martingale, you can expect to be ahead a good portion of the time because it tilts the house edge. Like a delay--instead of a constant stream, you dam it up, then it suddenly comes at you in a flood. What happens is that you will, very quickly--and much more quickly than the worst of players--end up losing all your gains. You are not limiting your risk, you are increasing it. Setting goals is nonsense, you are playing a negative expectation game. A max number of spins/rolls is similar nonsense. Any martingale user will win most sessions. You are playing with the same house edge as everyone else, only with a different standard deviation; martingale changes the variance, not the house's advantage. Of course, since you don't double down or split when it is optimal, you obviously are far from playing perfect strategy. So you are playing with a higher house edge than everyone else. You are basically a very poor player, which results in a higher than normal house edge--using a system that will result in frequent small wins and occasional massive losses. You have been gambling this whole time with a horrible system that does not work. If you don't quit while your ahead, you will regret it.
when playing bj, i strictly follow this guide http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/
no one has answered my question. I know all the pitfalls and fallacies involved with this system, thanks anyway for the advice. All I'm asking is, given the same bankroll and the following bj rules, which gives me better odds, bj or roulette?
dealer hits on soft 17
BJ pays 3:2
dealer uses 6 decks
no surrender
no double after split
What am I missing? Did you really just ask which game gives you the best odds between BJ (at the above mentioned rules) or Roulette?????
Unless I'm monumentally naive or I have missed something quite blatant, perhaps you should do some more investigation before trying to put more money at risk on games you clearly don't understand AT ALL!
What am I missing? Did you really just ask which game gives you the best odds between BJ (at the above mentioned rules) or Roulette?????
Unless I'm monumentally naive or I have missed something quite blatant, perhaps you should do some more investigation before trying to put more money at risk on games you clearly don't understand AT ALL!
His question is in regards to his system.
When playing a system like that, you want to avoid (I assume) those wild swings (variance), that are mostly caused by (in BJ) splits and doubles. If you're betting on the outside in roulette (black/red, odd/even, first/last 18), you're not going to have that kind of variance. Although, yes, there is a higher HE in roulette, I'm going to say you're probably better off playing roulette than BJ, because you don't have to double down and whatnot in roulette. At least, you might be able to stay alive longer in roulette than BJ. Your best bet is likely to be at a craps table, martingale on the pass (or don't pass).
In my opinion, the best betting system out there today, is not to use one!
His question is in regards to his system.
When playing a system like that, you want to avoid (I assume) those wild swings (variance), that are mostly caused by (in BJ) splits and doubles. If you're betting on the outside in roulette (black/red, odd/even, first/last 18), you're not going to have that kind of variance. Although, yes, there is a higher HE in roulette, I'm going to say you're probably better off playing roulette than BJ, because you don't have to double down and whatnot in roulette. At least, you might be able to stay alive longer in roulette than BJ. Your best bet is likely to be at a craps table, martingale on the pass (or don't pass).
In my opinion, the best betting system out there today, is not to use one!
Yeah, I'm with you. The fact of the matter is still that even with low variance bets such as the even money bets on AR it doesn't change the fact that you are giving away 5.26% whereas you give away 0.5% average on the blackjack tables. If you use his system he is going to perhaps lose money slower on the even money bets but he will still lose money.
If he is looking for longevity, you are absolutely right. If he thinks his system will allow him to win, he is gravely mistaken, even in the short term.
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Yeah, I'm with you. The fact of the matter is still that even with low variance bets such as the even money bets on AR it doesn't change the fact that you are giving away 5.26% whereas you give away 0.5% average on the blackjack tables. If you use his system he is going to perhaps lose money slower on the even money bets but he will still lose money.
If he is looking for longevity, you are absolutely right. If he thinks his system will allow him to win, he is gravely mistaken, even in the short term.
The Wizard, in the blackjack section of his site, lists the effect on house edge of NEVER splitting or doubling as -1.91% (I'm surprised it's not even worse)... So after thinking this over, I believe that using a martingale system in blackjack is much better then using it in roullette. Even under average bj rules, the -1.91 would not get you to worse than roulettes -5.26%. You just play hands like 8-8 vs a dealer 7 like you would play 10-6. It sucks but if your married to your martingale system and hell bent on never losing on a given hand more than you originally put in the bet circle, then this is the better way. Even better is if you get lucky and get dealt a blackjack on the 6th or 7th martingale double up.
Edit: just to be clear I don't use martingale, condone using martingale, or even allow people who use martingale to make direct eye contact with me. I'm just trying to answer the OP's question regarding which game is better suited for it.
The Wizard, in the blackjack section of his site, lists the effect on house edge of NEVER splitting or doubling as -1.91% (I'm surprised it's not even worse)... So after thinking this over, I believe that using a martingale system in blackjack is much better then using it in roullette. Even under average bj rules, the -1.91 would not get you to worse than roulettes -5.26%. You just play hands like 8-8 vs a dealer 7 like you would play 10-6. It sucks but if your married to your martingale system and hell bent on never losing on a given hand more than you originally put in the bet circle, then this is the better way. Even better is if you get lucky and get dealt a blackjack on the 6th or 7th martingale double up.
Edit: just to be clear I don't use martingale, condone using martingale, or even allow people who use martingale to make direct eye contact with me. I'm just trying to answer the OP's question regarding which game is better suited for it.
much appreciated, thanks! If we meet on the street I will avert my gaze.
Most pressers press when they are winning. These people seem to have more fun.
no one has answered my question. I know all the pitfalls and fallacies involved with this system, thanks anyway for the advice. All I'm asking is, given the same bankroll and the following bj rules, which gives me better odds, bj or roulette?
Martingale bettors should be more concerned about the probability of consecutive losses than HE.
Even under liberal rules, the probability of consecutive losses is much higher for Blackjack than Roulette, Craps or Baccarat.
The Banker bet in Baccarat has the lowest probability for consecutive losses.
It wins 50.7% of the time.This discussion reminded me of a challenge the Wizard accepted ten years ago.
Rainsong
What intrigued me about the challenge was that Rainsong's system lasted 168,621 hands.
The Rules were the most liberal that anyone could imagine.
His book 'Blackjack A winning Procedure -Using Statistical Performances' is available on Kindle.
I saw a hard cover version on E-Bay for $400.
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Throughout the years, a number of betting systems and strategies have emerged, each one attempting to provide players with an efficient plan which will help them accumulate more winnings. The games that require skills such as blackjack, are the ones that offer you the valuable opportunity to win them by implementing a plan. If you want to become a consistent winner while playing blackjack and make a profit, then you should learn a reliable strategy for your moves and a betting system for your wagers.
Also, it is really important to follow an efficient money management plan as this way you will be able to retain your profit successfully over the course of time. Players who place their bets randomly and act according to their current mood are bound to spend their available funds in no time. One of the most famous systems that is used by a number of players worldwide is the so-called Martingale Betting System. It is a very interesting strategy which aims at increasing the amount of your winnings. In order to determine whether this system is truly beneficial, let’s have a look at its main principle and its pros and cons.
Brief History
The Martingale Betting System is said to be one of the oldest betting strategies in the gambling world. It is believed that it was invented in France, however it got its name from a famous British casino owner Mr. Henry Martindale in the 18th century. Even though he wasn’t the person who had come up with this betting system, it was named after him because he made it popular by promoting it among its casino clients. The exact origins of the game remain unknown and gaming experts still haven’t come to a final conclusion in regards to this matter.
Overview
The Martingale Betting System is one of the oldest and most popular strategies which is a negative progression betting system, meaning that you are required to increase your bet when you lose and vice versa, decrease it when you win. This is the main principle on which the betting systems of this type are based. It is really just a matter of adjusting your bets accordingly in order to follow its plan. The main concept behind this system is that there is little likelihood that you will lose many hands in a row. This strategy suggests that at some point you are bound to win and when this happens, your bet will compensate for all of your previous losses.
The Martingale Betting System is very easy to learn and it is a strategy that can be used in many table games, including blackjack. Just like other famous betting systems, this one doesn’t aim at overcoming the house edge.
How to Apply the Martingale System in Blackjack
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This betting system is really easy to be understood and applied. Whenever you lose a hand, you are required to double your next bet. In case that you win, you should start from the beginning and place your base unit. It is entirely up to you to set the amount of one betting unit as the size of your bet should correspond to your bankroll for the day. In general, it is recommended to start the game by placing a small wager as this betting system is considered to be very risky as it can consume your funds in no time.
In order to illustrate best how the system works, let’s have a look at the following situation. Let’s assume that you have decided that one betting unit will be $5 which is your initial wager. You start by placing a $5 bet and the size of your next wager will be determined by the outcome of your hand. If you win, then you are required to put exactly the same amount – $5. However, in case that you lose, you need to put a wager that amounts to $10.
If you continue lacking luck and losing, then your next bet is supposed to be $20. Let’s assume that the worst case scenario occurs and this unfortunate trend continues. You have lost two more consecutive times and thus, you have doubled your bets twice – $40 and $80. Then, your strategy finally starts working and you win one hand. In this situation, you are ahead with your winnings as you have managed to make a small profit.
| Blackjack Martingale Betting System | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Bet Number | Bet Size | Hand Outcome | Net Winnings |
| #1 | 5 | LOSS | -5 |
| #2 | 10 | LOSS | -15 |
| #3 | 20 | LOSS | -35 |
| #4 | 40 | LOSS | -75 |
| #5 | 80 | WIN | +5 |
| #6 | 5 | WIN | +10 |
| #7 | 5 | LOSS | +5 |
| #8 | 10 | WIN | +15 |
Martingale Betting System Variations
The Martingale Betting System has several variations which use the same concept as the original strategy. Some of the most widespread versions are The Anti-Martingale, The Mini Martingale or The Grand Martingale System. The first of the above-mentioned systems is also known as The Reversed Martingale System and the difference between this version and the original system is that instead of doubling your bet when you lose, you are required to do so when you win.
| Blackjack The Reverse Martingale Betting System | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Bet Number | Bet Size | Spin Outcome | Net Winnings |
| #1 | 10 | WIN | +10 |
| #2 | 20 | WIN | +30 |
| #3 | 40 | WIN | +70 |
| #4 | 80 | LOSS | -10 |
| #5 | 10 | LOSS | -20 |
| #6 | 10 | WIN | -10 |
| #7 | 20 | WIN | +10 |
| #8 | 40 | WIN | +50 |
The Mini Martingale System is a variation which aims at preventing players from placing huge amounts for their bets if they are on a losing streak. In brief, it imposes a limit on the maximum amount of wager that can be put as its main goal is to make the system more moderate. With this variation you will lose your funds much slower than if you apply the classic Martingale System. The Grand Martingale is another very popular version which requires you to double your bet when you lose, however this time you have to also place one extra unit. The main idea of this version is to help you generate a bigger profit when you win. However, it is just as extreme and risky as the classic system and thus, it is not recommended.
| Blackjack The Grand Martingale Betting System | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Bet Number | Bet Size | Hand Outcome | Net Winnings |
| #1 | 10 | LOSS | -10 |
| #2 | 30 | LOSS | -40 |
| #3 | 70 | LOSS | -110 |
| #4 | 150 | LOSS | -260 |
| #5 | 300 | WIN | +40 |
| #6 | 10 | LOSS | +30 |
| #7 | 30 | WIN | +60 |
| #8 | 10 | LOSS | +50 |
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Pros & Cons of the Martingale Betting System
One of the biggest advantages this betting system has is that it offers blackjack players the chance to make a small profit over a short period of time. Due to the fact that you are required to double your bet every time you lose, once you win, the amount you’ve wagered will compensate for all of your previous losses and you will even get a small profit from it.
Even though at first glance the Martingale Betting System looks brilliant, it has some major flaws which should be taken into account. In theory, if you are able to double your bet when you lose, you are guaranteed to always win at some point and get back all of your funds plus a small profit. However, in reality this is not the case. One of the main disadvantages of this system is that it is a rather risky one due to the fact that it can cause you to lose all of your money in no time. If you happen to lose many consecutive hands, you will quickly run out of money which will render you unable to place your next bet. This way, you will also reach your loss limit faster or you won’t be able to place the minimum bet that every blackjack table requires.
This is one of the main reasons why the Martingale Betting System is considered efficient, but only in the short term. If you are an avid blackjack player who likes to immerse in long sessions, this system is perhaps not your best choice. In general, it has been estimated that the longer you play with this system, the higher your chances of losing are.
Conclusion
Martingale Blackjack Forum Golf
The Martingale Betting System is one of the oldest and most used systems of this type. It can be very efficient, if you play blackjack for a couple of hours, however for longer periods of time, it has proven to be rather disadvantageous. In short-term sessions, this betting system can be indeed a great way to make a small profit and walk out of the casino as a blackjack winner.
If your available bankroll is fairly limited, perhaps it is best to refrain from using this system. In most cases, the players who don’t have the funds to stay long enough in the game in order to win are bound to lose all of their money and leave the casino with empty pockets. In general, all negative progression systems are considered risky due to the fact that they require to increase your bet while you are losing.